HELP AMERICA TO VOTE ACT OF 2002. PUBLIC HEARING. Held on Thursday, March 6, 2003. Held at Paseo High School, 4747 Flora, Kansas City, Missouri. Appearances: Mr. Matt Blunt, Secretary of State. Mr. Gilbert Powers, Johnson County Clerk. Ms. Sharon Turner-Buie, Director of the Kansas City Election Board. Mr. Richard Struckoff, Greene County Clerk. Ms. Pat Conway, Buchanan County Clerk. SECRETARY BLUNT: Thank you everybody for coming today and taking interest in how Missouri conducts elections. Recently passed federal election law gives a great deal of responsibility to each state to determine how they will meet the requirements of the Help America Vote Act. And it certainly also gives us the flexibility in determining exactly how we will do that. States that intend to receive federal money are required to provide a plan of precisely how they will spend those funds. And really this endeavor and this meeting here today is designed to kick off that effort by collecting, and there has been a meeting already, to kick off public effort to collect input from citizens around Missouri that have an interest in our election process. As many of you know, this jurisdiction, Kansas City, Jackson County, used the punch card system. In the Help America Vote Act there is a punch card buyout, probably not enough for individual jurisdictions to complete a buyout, but certainly with local assistance that can be done. And something has to be considered by the State Planning Committee and other citizens as how, exactly what type of program we will go to. What type of equipment we will go to. The Help America Vote Act certainly provides challenges, but it also provides opportunities for us to address problems that exist in Missouri's election law. In many ways, because of action Missouri has taken already, the Election Reform Bill measure that was passed and signed into law in 2002, we meet many of the mandates of the federal election reform law. There are still things that we will have to do. Equipment issues are important for that. Accessibility issues are important for that. And also the database issues of how we maintain a centralized voter registration database will require significant changes based on what is contained, the guidelines established in the Help America Vote Act. Certainly I believe every citizen in Missouri has a stake in how we address this state plan issue. The state plan is going to be a guiding document for election officials and state government and local government in the years ahead. It is very important that it is crafted in a responsible way. We have lots of great committee members, people from all political parties. People who represent a diverse cross-section of our state. Might be the largest, one of the most diverse commissions that has ever been established to address a state issue. Missouri election process is one that requires that sort of diversity of input. It is important that we have involvement in the process, those people who are going to have to carry out the oversight of the election process and to make whatever we insist upon in the state plan, to make that work. With that in mind, we have a number of local election authorities involved, I am going to allow to say some words in just a few moments. One of the chairs in the Training and Education Committee, Sharon Turner-Buie, is the Kansas City Board of Elections Director. Another to my left, one of the chairs, the Equipment and Accessibility Committee is Gilbert Powers, the Johnson County Clerk. And then we are also joined with, by Pat Conway, the Buchanan County Clerk; and Richard Struckoff, the Greene County Clerk, who served as the co-chairs of the database, Provisional Voting and Identification Subcommittee. Before we ask for testimony from any interested participants, I would like to briefly allow them just to make a few comments on how they think the state plan needs to be formulated and what type of input we really are looking for from Missouri citizens. Why don't we start here on my left with Gil Powers. MR. POWERS: Thank you. On the Equipment Accessibility Subcommittee our first goal, of course, is to conduct these public hearings and take comments so that we can see if there are obstacles to free access to the election process as it applies to equipment and accessibility. As election authority, it is a good opportunity for me to be able to step back and look at the process and hear some public comment. In our zealous effort to protect the integrity of elections, sometimes we might inadvertently have put up some types of barriers and we would like to see what those might be. And then, of course, we will make a recommendation to the Secretary of State's office as it pertains to HAVA and how we may be able to meet the mandates for that federal act. SECRETARY BLUNT: Thank you. Certainly throughout the state plan process, balancing that need for integrity in the election process with a need for greater accessibility is paramount and really one of the great challenges for anybody interested in election reform, is balancing the need to enhance the integrity of the process, with a desire to ensure that no Missourian is disenfranchised and that voting is accessible for every citizen of our state. The important part of doing that is ensuring that citizens and election officials have the sort of training and education that they need to understand the election process and to be involved as election workers in overseeing the election process. We are fortunate to have a great, one of the chairs here with us, Sharon Turner-Buie is the chair of the Training and Education Subcommittee. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Thank you. Our committee met for the first time on Wednesday, February 26th in Jefferson City, Missouri. And I was particularly encouraged by the excitement that I saw among the committee members. As the Secretary of State mentioned, it is quite a diverse group. We had people who have come from all walks of life who were interested in learning about training and the information. They had their own ideas initially, and yet when we were able to actually discuss the election process, they learned more about elections in one hour than they had known. Which lets me know the task that we have of course, as we all know, is awesome. But we are on a committee that will touch every voter in the State of Missouri when we talk about training and education. We talk about training of poll workers. Expanding that training. So virtually every voter will be affected by the work that is done on the Training and Education Committee. So I am encouraged by the level of enthusiasm and the level of commitment that I have seen just so far in one meeting from our committee members. So we look forward to this challenge and to this task. SECRETARY BLUNT: Thank you, Sharon. And one of the real challenges for us to make sure that we are in compliance with the federal law. As I said before, many ways we already are. Provisional balloting would be a noble example. When we established we were ahead of a federal mandate, established provisional balloting prior to the enactment of the Help America Vote Act. Other proponents of Help America Vote Act will need to get into compliance. Certainly the centralized voter registration database is one issue that will have to alter our system to be in compliance with the federal law. We talked about integrity. Voter identification is key. The chair of that committee are with us, they are experienced accounting clerks. I will let them decide who goes first. But Richard Struckoff from Greene County, and Pat Conway from Buchanan County are here. MR. CONWAY: Thank you, Mr. Secretary. First of all, I would like to commend Secretary Blunt and his staff for taking the initiative in dealing with the requirements of the federal laws. I am the county clerk in St. Joseph in Buchanan County and I am a democrat, but without exception their staff has really taken the initiative in doing this and I want to complement the secretary and the staff. I had the opportunity to represent Missouri on the board of directors of the National Association of Counties, and I just returned from a four-day conference in Washington. One of the discussion points was how to implement the requirements of the federal law and how the states will deal with the many problems that are coming up with the implementation of these laws and problems in the voting areas that we have faced in the last couple of years. And without a doubt Missouri is by far very far advanced in comparison to most states that are dealing with this situation. The committee meetings that we had last week inspired me to believe that we are on the right track in Missouri. Although Richard has used punch cards and we both have been county clerks for a number of years. And I have used an optical scan system and Sharon, I know, has used punch card. We do have different types of equipment. But the goal is to make voting available, to break down the barriers of voting and allow people the opportunity to get to the polls, cast a ballot and have that ballot counted. I am very optimistic that this committee in going around the state will be able to discuss with people the problems that they have seen in attempting to vote, or getting their vote counted. And I am certain in Missouri that we are not going to be one of those states who are going to be left behind or not be prepared for the elections of 2004. I am hopeful that we will get a lot of input from the citizens and from the people in education and people in politics, people in government, people in special interest groups. Because we need to hear those comments for us to develop a plan that we can take back to the state legislature and to the state administration and show them the requirements that we want to fulfill and get the funding that we will need to implement this, not only from the Federal Government, but state government. And I think Missouri is going to meet that challenge very well. Thank you. MR. STRUCKOFF: I would just like to echo what Pat said. Matt has done a great job. Two of the things that our subcommittees are charged with doing, is assisting in the area of provisional voting and voter I.D. Missouri is way ahead of the game on this, thanks to Matt. It is almost as though he knew a member of Congress and had some inside information. We are very close to what the federal standards are. As far as the database goes, we do have a database. We still have a long way to go on that to make it interactive and to make it up to the minute. And we are still not sure how we are going to accomplish that. I am also very proud, I think there are at least three members of our subcommittee who just showed up to hear what you all have to say. I would like for them to stand and identify themselves. MS. FRETWELL: Estil Fretwell with Farm Bureau Federation. MS. CHRISTOPHER: Kelly Christopher, Livingston County Clerk. MS. CLARK: Wendy Clark. Platte County Election Board. MR. STRUCKOFF: Are there any other members of the subcommittee who came today? Please stand. MR. FERGUSON: Michael Ferguson with the Missouri Libertarian Party. MR. STRUCKOFF: Anyone else? Thank you. SECRETARY BLUNT: The reason we are here of course is to hear from citizens. So if somebody would like to come up. And I'm sure, given the size of our audience, do so in an orderly fashion. Somebody come up and present some testimony or share your ideas, your concerns, as we move forward with the creation of a state plan. Not all at once. I know we have at least one who wanted to do that. MS. TURNER-BUIE: State your name for the record. MS. PATTERSON: Willa G. Patterson. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Thank you, Ms. Patterson. MS. PATTERSON: Shall I go ahead and give my comments? MS. TURNER-BUIE: Please do. MS. PATTERSON: Okay. First of all, I heard about this forum through someone who had gotten an e-mail. And I know that voting is important. It is the only way that we are going to make our voice heard. Blind people in Missouri do have difficulty voting because the punch card system is inadequate and it does not allow us to cast an independent ballot. Many times we have to take people to the polls with us to read the ballot. If you don't, you have to rely on poll workers who many times are older and experience visual loss, have difficult reading the print, or in some cases cannot pronounce some of the words on the ballot. They have difficulty with the language. And by the time you get through having them spell words and figuring out the meaning of it, it is very time consuming. Therefore, there must be a machine whereby blind persons can independently cast their ballot and get the material read. Now, fortunately, and this is good for all of us, that the television channels and the newspaper have discussed the issues. So when I go to the poll, I know how I want to vote before I get there on propositions and constitutional amendments. And most of the candidates, except those that I haven't heard about yet. Bottom line is we need to have a machine in place in every precinct, county or whatever, so that blind persons can independently cast a ballot. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Thank you, Ms. Patterson. Do you have questions? MR. STRUCKOFF: Willa, have you ever voted absentee? MS. PATTERSON: No, I have not, because that, too, presents a problem. I would rather go to the polling place and do that. I would only vote absentee if I was ill and could not get to my polling place. Currently what I do, if the polling place is far from my home, I call one of the political organizations in Kansas City to take me to the polls and back home. MR. STRUCKOFF: I am not trying to be too personal. Do you read Braille? MS. PATTERSON: Yes, I do. MR. STRUCKOFF: Any idea what percentage of people with vision impairments can read Braille? MS. PATTERSON: It is less than one percent. That's my estimate. MR. STRUCKOFF: So really a Braille ballot probably would not be the answer? MS. PATTERSON: It would be for me. However, there ought to be -- there could be a machine out there that is audible that will read a ballot and help you cast it. Now I will tell you what does not work. The touch screen does not work for us. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Yes. MR. STRUCKOFF: You would still need some audio portion to tell you what to touch? MS. PATTERSON: Exactly. What to punch. What to touch or what to press. And that machine would have to have a way to help you cancel out, in case you make a mistake. MR. STRUCKOFF: Is there any technology that you use on a fairly frequent basis that does provide you with some autonomy? Easy to use? MS. PATTERSON: Currently I am learning to use the computer. But mainly I read Braille. MR. STRUCKOFF: And the computer has audio capability? MS. PATTERSON: Yes. All of them can have speech put on it. MR. POWERS: If you had a system that had a headphone so that you could hear in private, and there was a minimum number of buttons, maybe one, two or three possible maximum number of buttons on the machine as opposed to a touch screen, would that lend itself to what you are looking for? MS. PATTERSON: Yes, it would. MR. POWERS: If there was only a limited number of those devices, and maybe they would be different locations where you could go to, would that be an inconvenience sufficient to prevent you from going to vote? MS. PATTERSON: As long as it is in my voting area, that would work. It depends where it is. MS. TURNER-BUIE: While you say it would be adequate for you because you do read Braille. Do you think others with vision impairment would have that same attitude? Have you spoken with others about their preferences in equipment? Not equipment specifically, but features that are needed by those with vision impairment? MS. PATTERSON: Most people would benefit by an audio system. It could prompt you as to how to use the device. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Okay. MR. STRUCKOFF: Thank you, Willa. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Thank you so much for testifying before the committee today. We appreciate your remarks and we certainly will take them into consideration. MS. PATTERSON: Thank you. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Is there anyone else who would like to give testimony this evening? Even members of the committee can give testimony. If you have thoughts about the committee you are on or other committees, you are certainly welcome to make your opinions known as well. Or election officials. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Others may show up. It is five of 5:00. Many people get off from work at 5:00 o'clock. So what we might do is -- what I would like to do, first of all, is share with you a summary of the bills requirements so that all here have information about how these funds will be allocated. There are seven titles to the Help America Vote Act. Title 1 allocates $325 million to the states on a formula basis for improved election administration. Title 1 also allocates $325 million to the states on a formula basis to replace punch card voting systems. Title 2 creates an election administration commission and several associated bodies at the federal level. I might just mention on allocating the funds to replace punch card voting systems, that there is no requirement to replace punch cards. The federal law does not require us to replace all punch cards, but it does allocate funds to those counties who wish to do so. Title 2 allocates $3 billion to be distributed to the states with a five percent match requirement on a formula basis, to be used according to a state plan. A plan of course we are developing. It also creates several grant programs to provide funding for accessibility, which is 100 million dollars over four years. For technology improvements, which is $20 million. Equipment testing and technology in the amount of $10 million. Protection and advocacy, which is $40 million over four years, and student Mock elections at the rate of $1.2 million over six years. Title 3 establishes requirements for provisional voting, state-wide voter registration database, the voting system standards and identification requirements for voters who register by mail. Title 5 establishes the Help America Vote college program, and has allocated $5 million to that program. Title 7 establishes requirements for overseas and military voting. On the voting -- on the information and training committee, we are focusing on specific areas. The voting information we will provide to the public, we will make recommendations on the information that is to be provided, to be publicly posted at each election on election day. The voting information is going to include things like sample ballots for that election. Information regarding the daily polling places of operation. Which of course we already do, at least in Kansas City and the surrounding jurisdictions we do notify voters of the date and the time of voting and certainly the location of the polling places. We are also required under HAVA, which the act is commonly known as, to provide information on how to use the voting equipment, which we also do in Missouri. We will provide recommendations on how to cast a provisional ballot. How that information should be supplied to each polling place. The identification instructions for mail-in registrants who are first time voters. General information on voting rights under federal and state laws, including the right to cast a provisional ballot and instructions on how to contact the appropriate official when rights are violated. General information on federal and state laws regarding prohibitions on acts of fraud and misrepresentation. This is required to be in place by January 1, 2004. All of these requirements, I think, are for the benefit of the voters. Some of the things we do, some we do not throughout the state. We will not be required to provide this information uniformly throughout the state. Which is of value to voters. The college worker plan will look at the possibility of recruiting election judges at the college level. In conjunction with the Help America Vote college program is to encourage the college students to serve as non-partisan poll workers and also to encourage the state and local governments to use these resources. Another area that our committee will focus on is military and overseas voting. We will recommend information on how we think this office can best benefit the military and what procedures we think could be incorporated for military and overseas voting. Pole worker training is a major area that we will focus on. And we will look at expanding and enhancing existing poll worker training to ensure that we are providing as much information as possible to our poll workers uniformly throughout the state in an attempt to equip them to be able to service the voters of Missouri. I might ask the other committee chairs to talk a little bit about your committees so that -- Eldon Cox. MR. COX: Here. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Please come forward if you would like to testify. Mr. Cox, if you would please state your name for the record and then go on into your testimony. MR. COX: My name is Eldon Cox. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Please continue. MR. COX: Okay. And what I am looking for and concerned with would be some type of accessible voting for the visually impaired. Being a blind person myself, I think I have the right when I go into a voting poll to be able to vote secretive like everybody else, instead of having to vote with someone's assistance. It has taken years for the disabled to come out of the basements and attics and so on. So -- they say you can vote absentee, but again it has taken us a long time to get this far, and I think we need to have the right to vote like everybody else. MR. STRUCKOFF: Eldon, where do you live? MR. COX: I live on 73rd Street. About 73rd and Troost. MR. STRUCKOFF: In Kansas City? MR. COX: Yes. I know there are accessible voting machines available. I have seen them. I have used them in demos, but not in an election. MR. STRUCKOFF: In the demos, what type of machinery was used that you like? MR. COX: I have only seen -- I guess I have seen a couple. The one I am most familiar with is called an E. slate. It has got a dial somewhat like the old rotary phone. That when you -- it would actually talk, tell you the candidates for president. When you would turn the dial, it would tell you that you are on the individual. You would press a button. It would register that vote. You would go on to the vice president, your representative, senators. And at the end it would read it back to you to be sure you had it the way you wanted it, and then you would press a button that would cast the ballot. MR. STRUCKOFF: I believe I have seen this technology myself. Where did you happen to come across it? MR. COX: I have seen it in Houston, Texas at the American Council of the Blind's convention. MR. STRUCKOFF: Is that not the system that they are using in Houston? MR. COX: I believe it is. Yes. MR. STRUCKOFF: Eldon, do you read Braille? MR. COX: Yes, I do. MR. STRUCKOFF: Do you agree with previous testimony of Willa that says only about one percent of visually impaired people can read Braille? MR. COX: I would agree with that. MR. STRUCKOFF: Would you agree also that a Braille system probably wouldn't be enough to help the vast number of visually impaired people? MR. COX: Very much so. MR. STRUCKOFF: Okay. So the system you described probably would at least meet some basic needs? MR. COX: Yes. It would help not only visually impaired, it would help people that are slow readers. People that just have poor vision when they get in the voting place. Because the lighting is often poor. And the elderly, with the population getting older every day, it would assist them as well. MR. CONWAY: Eldon, I am Pat Conway. As I said earlier, I am the county clerk up in St. Joseph. MR. COX: All right. MR. CONWAY: One of the things -- and I understand your point, we are working in that direction. Would a situation of making designated handicap polling places -- I have polling places from the size of 120 up to 2400. Do you think allowing to designate, say, a half a dozen or a dozen designated polling places that can handle all handicapped individuals, not just visually impaired, but hearing impaired, would be a method that we could do this and stay within the capabilities of operating an election with the cost factor that we have, do you think that is something that the disabled community would accept? MR. COX: I know personally, if they would put in something that I could vote independently, like here in Kansas City down at the Election Board on Walnut, and would allow me to come there a day or two ahead of the election or even the day of, I would be willing to travel the extra distance that I would have to go so I could vote independently. MR. CONWAY: I think Missouri has implemented an early voting plan for 2004 which will do as you just stated, that will allow people to go to the voting headquarters or designated place to vote independently. I think that is probably one of the best recommendations the Committee has heard as far as those people who suffer from disabilities, to give them an accessible place so they can vote in private. And I really appreciate your comments. MR. COX: I think with -- it can't be implemented overnight. It is going to take a bit of time. So I would like to see it to where we could vote in our local area, you get to know the people that are standing in line with you as neighbors, as friends and community. I think that is very important that they see us out there. But as a starter, then yeah, I would be willing to go down to the Election Board and vote, if they had the machine so I could do it independently. If I am going to have to have somebody read me the ballot, then no, that is not acceptable. MR. CONWAY: Okay. Thank you. MR. STRUCKOFF: In fact, the federal law mandates that there be some device in every precinct that will handle that -- MR. COX: 2006, isn't it? MR. STRUCKOFF: Right. That type of vote. That's all I have. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Thank you very much, Mr. Cox. While we're waiting for others to testify, we will ask the chair of the other committees to talk about their committee and what their responsibilities are. Gil. MR. POWERS: I appreciate the comments of the last two witnesses. Because that is right down my subcommittee's expertise or area of -- we have been directed to work on. So I am glad to hear them say that they understand that this is not something that can happen in all polling places overnight and that they would be willing to work with us on solutions that we can find to assist all citizens. Technology has come a long ways in the last 20, 30 years. There are lots of new systems out there. In discussions that we have had in other committees, I have heard people talk about the benefits or the value of having one uniform accounting system state-wide. But the problem with that could be that if we had those same types of mandates years ago, we would probably all be on card punch systems right now. So that may or may not be the ideal solution. But I do believe there are systems out there that as they become affordable, can continue to proliferate all of the polling places. So we as a committee will probably be requesting manufacturers of different types of systems to come and show those to us so that we can evaluate the pros and cons of the different types of technologies that are out there. Right now, if we just go with what we currently know of, I know one person said maybe we need to go out and look at what a 2004 Cadillac looks like before we go out there and invest in a 1970 or 1980 model vehicle. So we need to go out and look and see what next year's models look like before we try to make some type of recommendations on the types of systems that are currently in place. Accessibility can come in a number of phases. There are other things, and even in the processes themselves that maybe we need to have comments on. I would like to hear from the other voters, not just on the limitations of the systems, but in the processes themselves as it leads up to using those sticker systems. There are a number of election authorities on this subcommittee, but we also have a number of individuals who represent different and various organizations that support systems who have a number of items that might prevent them from having full access to the process. We have shareholders such as Para Quad involved, the Governor's Council on the Disabled, the Department of Aging, ADA project, National Federation of the Blind, Missouri Council of the Blind, and Wolfner library representatives. So we have a very diverse group there. And hopefully from the comments that we get from the public, we will be able to go back and find ways that we can partnership in solutions to meet the Help America Vote. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Thank you. Richard Struckoff, who chairs the Database and Provisional Voting, voter I.D. MR. STRUCKOFF: Actually I am co-chair with Pat Conway. So jump in any time you like. The only problem we have, as I mentioned earlier, we have provisional voting now in the State of Missouri. We used it for the first time last November. It was a little bit difficult to throw something that new at our poll workers. I can assure you that not everybody in the state got that exactly right. But the big curve that the federal law throws at us is we have to provide a toll-free access system for provisional voters to use so they can find out if their provisional vote was counted or not. That is part of the federal law. So we -- much of our discussion over the next couple weeks and months is going to be how in the world are we going to provide this public access. Many of us who are in the local election business would prefer to pass that responsibility on to the Secretary of State, and the State of Missouri. But as we all know, the State of Missouri is out of money. My county commissioners tell us that we are pretty much in the same boat. So although we can use -- there are some unearmarked funds in the HAVA Act, and some of that might have to be used for that purpose. This will be very difficult, I think, for our committee to come to a conclusion. But we will see. As far as voter I.D. goes, again the State of Missouri changed its laws to allow all of the types of voter I.D. that are in the federal law, I believe. So there is very little that we will have to do on that. Then the centralized voter registration database, we have one, but in order to make it interactive and up to the minute, there is disagreement among the people who passed this bill what this means. So our committee is going to be working with the technological people from the Secretary of State's office to try to figure out what exactly we are going to do with this database. It also, for those of you in the audience who are election authorities, it also may require us to change our voter registration software again, which is something we did in 1995 and '96. And something I am not really looking forward to doing again any time soon. So if it involves those types of changes, we may have to ask for a waiver from the Federal Government and ask them if we couldn't wait to implement this part of the plan until January 1, 2006. MR. CONWAY: Well, I think the concern that I have, I think that the members of the committee have, and I know the people at the national level have, are funding. When the legislation passed and at the height of it there was a tremendous response from the Congress and various organizations around the country asking for a commitment to reform voting. The bill passed. I understand the initial appropriations which were 1.4 billion, it is down to 350 million. The gentleman from the State of California informed me that if they were to be in complete compliance with the federal bill just in the State of California, it would take all that has been authorized by the Federal Government for all other 49 states. So we're going to have to go into this with the fact that the Federal Government is not going to give us all the funding. The state budget is in a critical area right now, which we would not expect to get an abundance of funding from them the next two years. The counties and cities are also suffering. So we are going to have to implement the best we can with the funding that we have and the equipment that we have. And try to go as far -- I know Matt, and I know that the election people across the state don't really want to look for a waiver. But it may be something that we have to look for in order to comply by 2006. We have the requirements of the database which we have met on. I think we have made strides to do that. I guess when you put this in perspective, that one of the things that people are always surprised about is that voter registration really was not a state-wide issue until 1970s. The major metropolitan areas didn't do voter registration until the late -- until the early 1940s. So we have made great strides in the last seven years. We didn't have a state-wide ethics. We have that now. Sharon and I were able to cooperatively discover potential voter frauds in our two voting jurisdictions that we could not have done even seven or eight years ago. So we have made strides. In order to do this, we have to have the funding and the equipment. It is going to be, we are going to have to go at this on a very bipartisan way in order to do what needs to be done and with the funding that we are going to have. So I think every time we look at this, we are going to have to put this in perspective of what we can actually accomplish, and hopefully we can accomplish the goals of the federal laws, that we are only going to be dealing with that respect to the budget. MS. TURNER-BUIE: If the other chairs agree, I think it may be good for us to take a recess at this time. We might take a 30-minute recess. It is about 5:15 now. We will reassemble at 5:45 in anticipation of other people coming forward, coming in, who may want to testify. So we will reconvene at 5:45. (A short recess was taken.) MS. TURNER-BUIE: For the record, will you please state your name and address, please. Mr. Pierce. MR. PIERCE: Are you ready? MS. TURNER-BUIE: We are ready now. If you could give us your name and address, please. MR. PIERCE: My name is Hank Pierce. I live at 4914 Smart, Kansas City, Missouri. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Thank you. Please proceed. MR. PIERCE: Thank you, whoever you are. MS. TURNER-BUIE: I'm sorry. My name is Sharon Turner-Buie. I am director of elections of Kansas City. MR. PIERCE: I know exactly who you are. Thank God for you. MS. TURNER-BUIE: How nice of you. Thank you. MR. PIERCE: That is part of my -- well, it is part of my testimony. We had a, well, a little of God never hurt anybody. I am here because the last, not the last election, but the primary before we had -- one of the reasons I am here is because we had a lot of problems in getting a fair and equal vote. And that's what it is all about. We now currently have to have somebody vote for us. We certainly can tell them who we are voting for and what number we want on the -- yes or no on the propositions or amendments, but we have no idea of knowing that that's what we in fact voted for. And at the last election there was such a shake-up at our poll that we had almost all new people. I had to, for the primary in November, get a couple of lawyers to come in and help me vote. Which I thought was a real shame. But if we were to use such things as -- have such things as accessible voting machines, that wouldn't have to happen. Those machines are such that when I need it, it will talk to me. It will read me the ballot. It will read all of the propositions, all of the amendments, all of the candidates, all parties. And for those that don't need it, they can shut it off. They don't have to listen to the speech. But for me, I am 50 years old. And I voted in many elections. And I think that it is time that the State of Missouri, especially since the Federal Government is allowing some funding, I would like to see some of that funding go to accessible voting machines, which would be a part of the accessible polling places. Because we want accessibility for everybody. Thank you. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Thank you, Mr. Pierce. MR. STRUCKOFF: Hank, I asked previously people who gave previous testimony. Do you read Braille? MR. PIERCE: Yes, I do. I do read Braille. MR. STRUCKOFF: If you were to guess as to the percentage of visually impaired people who do read Braille, what would you guess that to be or do you know for a fact? MR. PIERCE: I would say that unfortunately it is probably fairly low. Now I don't have the exact figure. MR. STRUCKOFF: We had previous estimates in previous testimony of less than one percent. Does that sound right to you? MR. PIERCE: Well, I would hate to think that was the case. I am certainly not going to say that it is or it isn't. But it is quite low. It would certainly, for somebody that is deaf-blind, that would be one -- about the only way that you could have a machine. To my knowledge there aren't any. And if there were, they would be very expensive. That very well could be. I would like to say it was a little more than that. MR. STRUCKOFF: Now you described a system that would provide you with audio information. Have you been demonstrated any kind of equipment like that yourself? MR. PIERCE: Absolutely. MR. STRUCKOFF: Where did that occur? MR. PIERCE: I have seen it at a conference called See-Son that is held every year in Los Angeles. Also at the American Council of the Blind Convention had one, had a couple. MR. STRUCKOFF: Was that in Houston? MR. PIERCE: Yes. Yes, it was. But I think it was actually first demonstrated in Des Moines. I have seen several different versions. See-Son actually had three or four versions, and the one that most people seem to like was one they called the E. Slate. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Mr. Pierce, during the break I was having a conversation with some of the people in the audience. And one of the comments that was made really impressed me, because the young lady said, you know, I think in terms of having one machine for the physically disabled, regardless of their disability, and another machine for the rest of the world, wouldn't it be great if we had one machine for everyone. I think that would be great. But I think she is absolutely right. As election administrators, because we have equipment that we provide for the disabled at polling places and all of the other equipment, I think that that is the way we think about voting equipment. But with the technology that we have today, with the advances that are made, perhaps some of the manufacturers are already thinking that way, about developing a voting machine that serves the needs of all voters. I think it gives us pause as committee chairs when we hear these comments, and it helps us to begin to think differently. So Gil Powers is over the technology committee. Right. And I suggested to someone that perhaps we should talk with him about this as well. Because we do need to think differently about our voting systems. About the users of our voting equipment. Also I think it was Mr. Cox who mentioned to me that there is a conference in April. And I am sorry, I don't remember the name of the conference, but we have made arrangements to be in touch, to put him in touch or whoever is overseeing this conference, with manufacturers of equipment. Because we would love to have people come out and demonstrate the equipment at the conference, which I think is an excellent idea. And I think that election administrators are certainly willing to partner with the community at large in all of our jurisdictions, but somehow we have not gotten that information out. So I am glad to have this kind of information, and I will certainly work with Mr. Cox or whoever is overseeing the conference, to see what we can arrange. Because this is the only way that we can become knowledgeable about the problems that you, along with others, face when you go to the polls on election day. So we certainly appreciate your input. MR. PIERCE: Well, that's why I made the comment that these machines that we would use the headphones with, can be used by anybody else. I mean, they are not proprietary to us. That was my reason for bringing that up. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Thank you. MR. POWERS: Hank, on that E. Slate. Do you know if it had some type of paper audit trail? Did it generate anything -- MR. PIERCE: Yes. MR. POWERS: -- that would be trackable? MR. PIERCE: Yes, it does. It actually, you can print it out. See, that was a lot of the problems, I was on a National Committee for Election Reform. And on that committee, that was a lot of the concern, that there was -- that we could get it in, but how could we get it to -- well, it prints out, just like your scannable, which are totally -- scanning machines and that kind of thing is totally useless to us. MR. STRUCKOFF: Hank, did each individual voter's vote and ballot print out, or was it run on a continuous piece of paper? MR. PIERCE: No, I believe -- wait a minute, wait a minute. I believe that it, that each individual ballot would print out. MR. POWERS: So someone who was not seeing impaired could actually look at that piece of paper and confirm that was their vote, just as someone who is seeing impaired could hear a summary at the end of their voting process to make sure that every issue had been voted the way that you intended it to? MR. PIERCE: That is absolutely correct. Because you -- not only do you get a summary at the end, but you can go back. You can go to different -- did I vote for -- you know, did I vote for Ford or didn't I? And you can go look at that. You can find out. You can make sure. I mean, nothing is final until -- I don't want to say the fat lady sings -- but until you actually confirm that you are done. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Thank you, Mr. Pierce. MR. PIERCE: Thank you. And again, Ms. Buie, thank you for intervening for our polling area last time. We certainly appreciated that. MS. TURNER-BUIE: You're certainly welcome. We have a question from Mike Ferguson. If you would come forward, please. MR. FERGUSON: Actually my question is for you. My question was, these machines that you tested out, from a poll worker's perspective, from an education perspective. How much trouble did you have learning how to use it? Was it easy to explain? Was it very complicated for the poll workers or the folks that demonstrated it to show you the hang of it? MR. PIERCE: Yes. I would like to respond to that. Actually it was not. It was very easy to use. I have to clean my glasses here. It was very easy to use. The learning curve, I mean, there is nothing -- there is nothing esoteric about it. It was very simple. MR. POWERS: Would you mind to kind of walk us through from not having ever used this machine, how you learned to use it? Kind of how that transpired or what kind of process that was? MR. PIERCE: Well, once you learned the key pad, I mean, you put on your headphones. You push -- I can't remember, because it has been awhile since I have seen it. MR. POWERS: But someone directed you where to start? MR. PIERCE: Yes. Because they would say, you know, it has a number pad obviously for when you need numbers. And a key for yes and a key for no. And it has arrow keys, so you can move up and down and page for the pages. But yes, once you -- it is like anything else, once you -- like talking ATM's. You put the headphones in and there is a help screen if you need it. And it will walk you through it, whatever you are doing. Well, once you put it on, it is talking and it will tell you press the start key, which is in the upper left-hand corner, I believe. Something like that. And then -- I mean, it doesn't just say, you know, press the enter for yes and not tell you where it is. And it does have extensive help. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Thank you. MR. PIERCE: You're very welcome. Thank you. MS. TURNER-BUIE: There may be some who have -- some in the audience who simply have questions they would like to ask. You may not have testimony. But do feel free to ask any questions that come to mind. We will be glad to try and field them for you. While you may be thinking of some of them, I can mention to you that our schedule in the future for our public comments are as follows. On Monday, March the 10th, we will have public comments in Saint Louis at the Century Room A, Millenium Center. That is the University of issouri at Saint Louis. On Wednesday, March 19th, we will have public hearings at the Interpretive Center, in Jefferson City. That's 600 West Main in Jefferson City. And on Wednesday, March 26th, we will have a public hearing in Springfield, Missouri at the Library Center in meeting room A. and B. That is at 4653 South Campbell in Springfield. And then in Poplar Bluff, we will be at the Butler County Courthouse, 100 North Main, on Thursday, March 27th. So you are all welcome to attend those meetings as well. Or at least tell others about those meetings if you know people in those areas. MR. PIERCE: I already have. Sure have. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Are there questions? It is now 6:00 o'clock. And in the absence of additional testimony, I think we will adjourn this public hearing. We want to encourage you, however, if after you leave the meeting, you think of other things that you would like the committee to know, please forward them to my office. I can give you our e-mail address. Which is KCEB. That is K. Kansas, C. Charlie, E. Edward, B. boy, at KCEB. You can also write us. We're at 1828 Walnut, Suite 300 in Kansas City, Missouri, 64108. Or feel free to give me a call. My number is 816-842-4811 is my direct number. Don't tell anybody else. But you all can call me direct. MR. PIERCE: Believe me, if they call the main number they'll get you. Because I've done it. You get right to us and I appreciate it. MS. TURNER-BUIE: The main number is 842-4820. But you are certainly welcome to call me direct with any questions or concerns that any of you might have. Before we adjourn, I might ask Gail Vandelicht from the Secretary of State's office if she has any comments that she would like to make or any information you would like to share? MS. VANDELICHT: Thank you. Not really. I can't think of anything, other than just to thank everyone for coming, and especially the people that are serving on the committees. We have a big task ahead of us and we appreciate all of the input that the county clerks and the representatives from the other committees that are serving on the State Planning Committee are willing to give. It takes a lot of time and effort on their part and we appreciate that. Our deadline, self-imposed deadline is June 1st to have the state planning. Because we want to start receiving federal funds as quickly as possible. So we have a lot to do between now and June 1st. Thank you. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Thank you. To the Committee Chair, do we have any closing remarks? MR. STRUCKOFF: Thanks for coming. MS. TURNER-BUIE: Thank you all. MR. PIERCE: I would like to thank you guys for doing this and having these hearings. It means a lot. I'm sorry more people didn't show. Because I think it is important that we do get out here. Otherwise you kind of wonder about the response. But thank you for hearing those of us that were here. MS. TURNER-BUIE: And thank you for coming. (end) CERTIFICATE I, JAMES A. LEACOCK, Certified Court Reporter, do hereby certify that I appeared at the time and place hereinbefore set forth; I took down in shorthand the entire proceedings had at said time and place, and the foregoing forty-four pages constitute a true, correct and complete transcript of my said shorthand notes. Certified to this 12th day of March, 2003. Certified Court Reporter